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dagger: on butch women, edited by lily burana, roxxie, and linnea due, 1995, via gatheringbones

[THE MEN IN MY LIFE An Interview with Lou Lily Burana

Lou is a New York-born and raised leather dyke who moved to San Francisco in 1989. As a butch dyke and S/M player who occasionally adopts a “daddy” persona it’s no surprise that Lou should have much to say about the influence of the men who’ve figured prominently in her life.

Lily Burana: Now, how would you define your relationship with Rusty?

Lou: Well, Rusty is my poppa, I think of him as p-o-p-p-a, poppa, and his boy, Michael, is my nasty evil wicked stepmother. Rusty was the first male I met when I moved to San Francisco. I took the motorcycle skills course about a month after I got here, and he was in the class and he was, you know, this little, adorable— not little— but adorable, redheaded faggot. When the course was over we went for a ride, and one night we went out together. We went out to the old Lone Star before the earthquake, before it went down, and we also went to the Eagle. It was that night I said, you know, “I’m going to dress to pass.” He totally didn’t get it. “You dress anyway you want darlin’.” So I dressed in my leather pants and a tight tee-shirt and a shirt over it and my leather jacket and a cap. I didn’t pack because the Lone Star was a men’s bar. I didn’t know if the guys would think I was a guy or a girl or get insulted or what. So I didn’t pack. But we went down there in his van, and we were about to walk in there, and I had this image of getting carded and them figuring out I was a girl. And he goes, “You look like a boy, darlin’, I’m going to introduce you as Lou to my friends.” And that was where Lou was born, that very night. So we went in there and he introduced me as Lou and we got a couple of Budweisers and he had a couple cigars and we leaned up against the wall and talked, and he was like, “You just got cruised.”

Lily: By a guy, by a faggot.

Lou: By a guy, by a faggot. And he was like, “Goddamnit you just got cruised again.” So anyway we had a good time with that. 

Lily: You big chicken, that’s why.

Lou: Yeah, I was a chicken, a butch chicken. Anyway, it was a great bar because the men were so affectionate with each other. It was one of the first placed I’d really seen men just putting an arm around each other and just kissing and being really friendly and no attitude. And then we went to the Eagle and we had another Budweiser and another cigar, and I continued to get cruised as chicken, and he continued to cruise and get cruised. So we just had a very nice time, and we started hanging out together. During that period Rusty was single. He and Michael had just broken up, supposedly, and of course Michael says they’ve been together twelve years with one year off for good behavior and all that. But they were single for about a year, and so Rusty and I had a lot of time to ride. We both cruised and whatever, but we had a lot of time to establish our relationship before Michael and he got back together. Because they’re very married, and they don’t go out a lot, and I think if they’d been together we probably never would have gotten together. So that’s how I met Rusty.

Lily: What’s the dynamic of your relationship? (….)

Lou: —not accept the premise that women are gong to be by definition like shit, or are going to be by definition less than, or going to be by definition whatever. I feel like part of that comes from my dad— for although he was a misogynist, he did the very best he could with me. He gave me a sense of my integrity and of my right to be whatever the fuck I want to be and to do whatever the fuck I want to do. If other people don’t like it too bad, they can just suck up and deal.

Lily: What about your relationship with Rusty?

Lou: What did I value most? Oh, I’d say the unconditional love is a big one. I’d say just having a really warm, loving, older, safe, nonsexualizing male around. Yeah. He’s really beautiful, he’s really male, he’s really butch, although he definitely queens around. He just has a lot of time and space for me and I have a lot of time and space for him. I see him as innocent and a very loving being and a very caring being. And I feel sad. Partially because I already feel sad and partially because I fear the loss of him. I’m basically putting out as much positive energy as possible in terms of his process and his life and his doing what he wants and getting what he needs.]

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