kradeelav | (no subject)

something that's always puzzled me is why the indie music scene is so much more ... chill? discourse-wise than indie comics/fandom/etc.

i know that's maybe false and the only reason why I don't see the drama is not being in it - but i can't help but compare the difference between Hozier's arsonist character doin' his thing, or having a song subtly about domestic abuse in a not-clear-cut sort of way versus some hapless indie comic artist getting fuckin axed to the ground by antis/discourse for depicting not even that much in creations? good example being the latest hissy fit over - eh fuck it, i don't give a shit.

but like what happened there? why is it that music has kept that intensity and sort of edgelord vagueness? is it more ... communal, in emotions (thus making it easier to sympathize with)? I was going to say 'because it can't be experienced out of context, music is music' - except you can take lyrics out of context? I don't really think it's a 'who makes it' sort of thing either 'cause you get plenty of folks from all walks of life making both, if you dig deep enough?

basically whatever music has there in terms of intense edgelordy ~connection~ minus the discourse i want that lol

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armaina

One thing I'd probably say is that you don't see people making fanworks of that sort of thing as you do other fandoms. Because of that you don't get cross exposed to people with wildly different perspectives from your own. (or rather the frequency is less). Not only that but the nature of fanworks creates this sense of ownership with the media you're making fanworks of, which leads to the act of policing the thing you think you 'own'.

I also find that any media that doesn't set itself squarely in the camp of representation of some kind, tends to attract less volatile people. The moment you try to market yourself as 'inclusive' you inherently attract people that show up to make sure you're the right kind of inclusive.

flowersforgraves

+1. It also seems like there's a bigger barrier to entry in "serious" music fandom than regular-ass fandom (whether or not that's actually true is up for debate)

queenlua

random off-the-top-of-my-head theories:

* the moral panic over music was the 90s, see everyone freakin out about rap and Eminem or whatever. everyone got it out of their system and now if you complain about music you are Irredeemably Square

* due to the nature of the form, people tend to pay attention to "do the instruments/beat/chords/etc sound good" more than the specifics of the lyrics—like, i think we've all had the experience of "oh i love that song!" and someone else is like "oh yeah that's the one about the serial murderer in the 1970s" and then you gotta be like WHAT? WHO? WHEN? i never actually LISTENED to the lyrics that hard jeez

* in the case of Hozier, probably because i don't think you count as an indie musician anymore if i heard you on every damn radio for a few hot months there :P i'm pretty sure Too Big To Cancel is definitely A Thing. (the comic scene is probably a smaller market overall than like, top 40 radio? so it's harder to get Too Big To Cancel)

* commenting on hip-hop/rap specifically since that's probably the genre i listen to the most—part of it may be historic? like, rap had the reputation for bein about Shootin Guns Doin Drugs Disrespectin' Women, and while that's definitely not all that rap is about, not even close to it, ahhh, like, that is a big part of rap history, it always has been, and while there is interesting dialogue about that from all sides, it more often takes the form of like... specific beefs rappers have with other rappers, songs responding to other songs, etc. like you can't throw out every rapper who has ever said a Problematic Thing because you'd be throwing away way too much history/influence for the landscape to make any sense.

lukadian

I think a lot of it could have to do with comics being a *visual* medium and therefore quicker to be in your face with their content than say lyrics which depending on the active listener vs distracted listener, might not really hit as fast/hard?

I see posts and articles all the time with people coming back to sings YEARS later only to be so surprised the content was much darker than they'd initially assumed or been lead to believe, like "man I had NO IDEA this song was about Domestic Violence/Rape/Murder" etc.

Whereas for comics, visual mediums, the second scant nip hits a panel/screen people feel scandalized.

This is really just kind of top of the head first impressions and there's far more at play but when I think of quick gut reactions I think it's harder for people to ignore what makes them uncomfortable visually than it is in a prose format that's easily tuned out if one is multitasking?

Edited Date: 2020-03-31 01:50 am (UTC)

Oh yeah I can buy that. When you set up that kind of standard you kind of invite criticism both good and bad and something like that probably deserves criticism to stay relevant/respectful/accomplish goals it set out to do, but some folk take it way too fr or don't make their comments in good faith.

Music rarely seems to be made with the expectation it be broadly appealing or inclusive-anything! Hence you have so many splinters even within widely known genres-- People will create little micro sub-generes on the things they like in a type of music to emphasize that, rather than interact with what they don't like.

My experiences in music scenes are primarily limited to 90's goth/alternative and punk scenes which are highly individualized and the worst you could have been accused of was usually being a "sell out" or a "poser" which are honestly kind of asinine things to be worried about to begin with and have more to do with legitimizing one's image as hardcore or authentic than any kind of moral representation clout, and most people once they get past their teens and early twenties don't care anyways, we're just happy to get the time off work to hit up a last minute concert at a local bar!

kradeelav

this is a really great insight on a lot of levels - for sure nodding at the whole thing. Easier to get more uncomfortable by blatant depictions ... for example, abuse like getting hit with a wine bottle or something - which involves unpleasant expressions, anger, violence, an aura of fear and claustrophobia which is something pretty visceral especially in the hands of a good artist in comparison to text where you can weirdly skirt around the actual action (tho no less visceral).

tl;dr - totes agree~

ooo that's a really great point!

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