kradeelav | (no subject)

Entry tags:

krad shitpost

(no subject)

cannot tell if *I'm* getting more ornery / opinionated / argumentative due to Old Age(tm)

or if the mainstream internet is genuinely increasingly bubble-y and does the whole 'hammer down the oddball nails that stick out' more?

~~(or both?)~~

( i may have gotten into some mini skirmishes on a discord server or two >__> there was a dude that had some slightly --only slightly!-- heterodox thoughts on the indie web and some folks took it as "disrespect" when it was imo only a difference of opinions on [checks wrist] the server itself thinking it was a "community"??? i didn't even know the server thought of itself as one ... or felt like there was "respect(???)" owed to it... red flag imo! given they partially walked back the "disrespect" comment when i said "i don't see any?", just aaaaargh -

asdcvfbhjkl;;; jesus christ i hate that kind of insular echo chamber, gives me proto-ideology vibes. don't think i'll be staying there longer.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

The increasing use of the word "community" to refer to a loose and completely unorganized collection of people who happen to have the same interest on the internet is so bizarre to me. And shitty, because it a) creates false standards, as clearly happened here, and b) waters down what "community" actually means. A community is not accidental! Community requires sustained effort and compromise and negotiation of what the community is and what's supposed to be acceptable there! If you have not had even an inkling of those kinds of negotiations, you are not in a community. Possibly you are in a discord server. Which is FINE, but is not the same thing.

gosh thank youuu - it's really nice to have some validation that I'm not the only one that feels oddly off at that community word being applied to something else that's very ill-fitting.

Trying to approach it from a good faith angle, maybe there was a group or smaller clique that *had* been talking more/longer/etc and operates more like a community (there were a few channels about a manifesto and some deal), but even in that light ... it should be straightforward that everyone not included in that smaller gang is going to feel the same.

Anyway, thank you for the comment. :)

100% to watering down what community as a concept had been generally meant. it reminds me in a weird way of the similar language drift from 'squick' as a very, very useful word for any kind of trope that somebody doesn't want to interact with to... 'portraying x fictional trope is always morally wrong' - conflating personal feelings with what used to be more of a nuanced territory.

oh well, I suppose that's partially why we're here on dreamwidth :P

discord servers are so ... I don't know how to describe it exactly, I haven't been in all that many. They're so intimate, and at the same time, I get the sense that everyone on a given server conforms to the personality and tastes of whoever is loudest. And that person (or group of people) is often a bit narrow-minded, a bit of a bully ... and frequently they're mods as well XD The only discord server I've been on that I've actually, totally liked only had 4 members lmao

100% to everything you said about discord servers, heh, was nodding the whole time. The good ones really are about the tight small group where everyone already knows each other and there's unusually chill personalities.

I think I know which server you're talking about, (and am also in it too, but discords past a certain size I get too intimidated to talk in often, then mute and just lurk) and I really get your feelings there...

I also agree with one of the points brought up in the replies here. People gathering together loosely, and in an unorganized fashion isn't really what I'd call a community, especially as a lurker for a lot of my life in many online spaces that called themselves such. But at the same time as you said in a reply here too, there also may definitely have been a group of people in there for longer and have talked more, and may feel/have that community feeling.

As someone who once did mod a discord for 3 years, as the size grows, people will not be fully caught up with the details, feel left out or just not feel the same as a whole entirely. That is a part of the growth of just about all public discords, regardless of purpose or intent. Trying to form a discord as an actual community, in the true sense of the word, is definitely possible! And I'm sure it's happened out there somewhere, but most places I've seen, to form community in the true sense of the word it has to be built in the foundation of the server from the very start. Not figured out as things go along. Which is how a lot of servers I've seen do it.

And after a certain size passes, that just gets a lot harder to do. More people joining, with different wants, views, and needs. It can get rather unruly and even if the server's foundation was exactly what a newbie in there wants, It's still so easy to feel left at the wayside compared to the rest. Discord servers can be great, but trying to form actual community in one has a lot of challenges that I don't have any of the answers to. Not saying or assuming all servers, or even this one aren't trying or haven't tried to form community, because I just don't know what all the goings on are in any server.

Hopefully I made some sense here, the coffee hasn't fully woken up my brain in full yet. Still a bit sleepy. *_* Just as someone with 3 years of mod and running a server experience I have A Lot of thoughts about Discord as a platform and trying to host a space there, but articulation of thoughts regardless of subject has always been a big struggle of mine. One day when I have all the needed words, I'd really like to make a post about it.

And back to your post: I really also feel those same vibes too as you do, I'm probably not gonna be in there for much longer myself either.

Edited 2022-03-27 14:41 (UTC)

Haha, yeap, I think you're right about which server too.

You make a *lot* of sense there no worries, and it's a little validating to hear to tell you the truth, not selfishly but just more of a 'ahhh so that's what was going on' sense.

I really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on discord with your modding experience - it's a whole 'nother viewpoint and you've almost absolutely seen these kinds of various conflicts play out over and over at least in a way that rhymes, if not repeated exactly so. The comment about needing to form a community from the very start makes total sense in hindsight - clarity of rules and a north star, yeah.

(It's also making me think back to forums and why it "felt" more like a community back in those days - folks who weren't members could scan the forums and messages and get a bead on whether they would feel welcome there, and sort of self select themselves out if not. and just ... intuitively it feels like it's more transparent as a structure, though of course I could be wrong.

would love to hear your post when/if you feel ready about it, the nuances of online social behaviors is fascinating as hell. : )

I'm really glad to hear that, both in that I made sense and in the validation of the "ahhh so that's what was going on" sense too! ^^

There's so much to running a discord. More than most people expect or even think about until they do it themself. If anyone wants to make one, you really have to know what you are looking to forge and what you want down the line for your space. And depending on your purpose, how far down it's recommended you should plan and prep for also varies. Especially if its gonna be public compared to a more private space, that makes a massive difference. There are things that feel obvious with the gift of hindsight that can slip anyone's mind regardless though.

I was a lurker in the fourm days, (which was wise of younger me because I became more socially in tune with social rules and customs online when i finally partook in public spaces, bur forums weren't as common anymore by that point) so I always appreciate hearing insight and perspectives on them! And there's only so much can learn and notice via lurking, compared to actually being there.

But even when I did lurk, I definitely do know its a lot easier to just feel the overall vibe of a space and if its for you or not. Even just as a lurker I was about to just know if I really felt like browsing this specific sailor moon forum or not by perusing as a digital tumbleweed. Compared to discords, which you always have to join first.

Again I really appreciate your insights on them, since I never actually talked in any or joined them back when they were commonplace! Same with you, I find the nuances of online social behaviors super damn fascinating too! :D I definitely intend to make a post about it sometime, I've got a lot of thoughts and observations about discord, especially from the modding and server running perspective. I really appreciate the interest a ton! ^u^

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only